•  Competence and Communication

•  Fluid Maintenance

•  Suspension Parts, Axles and Tune-up

A lot of info on the subject, but something was missing...

I have noticed a lot of articles over the years (and now many video exposés) about repair shop rip offs.  Some of them definitely involve dishonesty, but I've noticed that many of the cases that people thought were "rip offs" could have had other explanations.  Kimberly, my daughter who works at our shop, half jokingly said this "article" was a rant.  I'm not sure she was wrong (or joking), it does go into a lot of detail, but I hope it is not a "rant" in the sense of being violent or aggressive, that certainly is not my intention in presenting these thoughts to you.  Though I realize it may come off as a bit passionate at times and that is because it is about a subject that effects a lot of people's lives in a fairly major way: 

 Of course it effects my family and its future since we have a repair shop and that makes the topic important to me, but it also effects everyone because everyone visits repair shops at one time or another and it is a major expense to keep a vehicle maintained.

 I understand why some consumers are nervous about getting their car fixed,  you are pretty much at the mercy of the shop.  And car repairs, done honestly or not, make a major impact on someone's budget and their life; so getting ripped off by one is serious business.  I had one couple who told me that their life started going downhill after getting ripped off at some shop and spending a lot of money on repairs.  I don't recall if I heard the details of that "rip-off" to know if it was blatant or not.   That's what makes it scary, it's actually a mysterious event, because the consumer does not normally even know if they were "ripped off" or not!  They usually have a "feeling" one way or the other, but unfortunately my observations have been that some are wrong on both sides of the fence.  Some folks that think they were ripped off probably were not and some that think they are "being taken good care of" were actually taken advantage of.   Maybe this article will help you gain some insight into discerning what amounts to good auto repair service. 

   Dyrell Hicks, manager of CarScope

The obvious and not so obvious

If there is intentional dishonesty or if the shop intentionally does not do what it was paid to do, of course that's a blatant rip-off.  But there are other reasons for dissatisfaction that are more communication and competence related that I think you might find interesting.  For example, replacing parts that are not broken would be considered a rip off, yet sometimes that is more difficult to discern than what it appears at first glance.   After all, preventative maintenance is all about preventing a break down, so this is a legitimate reason to replace a part that is at the end of its service life, BEFORE it breaks!  A Timing belt is a good example.

 Most of these "Rip off" exposés say 50% and higher of the shops investigated are ripping people off!!  I guess it is possible that there are that many shops that are really ripping people off, but I hope not.  This article is here to give you one side of the story you might not have known about.

Competence and communication

Service writers- the office side

The service writer or manager, the person in the office that you talk to is your link to the technician,  they have a key role in getting your car fixed right.  He or she is the one that needs to be clear about what the concerns are and what you want to do about them.  And their job is to be sure you get what you authorize from the tech doing the work.   That is actually no small task.  As someone who does both, I find that to do the service writing correctly takes as much or more skill than doing the repair work!

Many of the perceived "rip offs" I have heard about could look that way because of poor communication between the service writer and the customer.  Sometimes it happens because things were too rushed to explain things before or after the job, sometimes because the service writer may not know what should be explained, or they received little communication from the technician.  All of those conditions can and should be corrected, but often they are not.  Sometimes it's just people being human (i.e. selfish), doing their "own thing" and not caring enough about others to go the extra mile.   In this case the extra mile is a service writer who thinks things through on each job and takes care of communicating with the tech to be sure the car is ready to go and all the concerns are taken care of or noted for the future.

Service Writer Syndrome

What does not help the situation is what we call Service Writer Syndrome.  I titled it with that tongue in cheek phrase because it is a bit funny to a technician to hear some of the things some service writers say, but very sad for the customer. The "Syndromes" definition is a state of mind that results in the common occurrence where some service writers pretend to, or really do think they know more than they do about the technical side.  It can even progress to the point where technical explanations appear to be made up "on the fly".  At least it is unknown where they got the strange, wrong, explanations for things.   Conveying inaccurate information abut your automotive concerns is a "rip off" in and of itself but can also backfire and cause more obvious problems due to the need to cover for what was said earlier.  Though in most instances the customer never finds out about the inaccurate information.  I haven't done a survey and given tests to all the service writers out there, so I don't know what percentage of service writers this syndrome effects, but I know I've seen it a whole lot, as have technicians I have hired who have been in the industry for years. 

My suggestion is: if something they are saying or the way they are presenting it does not "set right", there is a good chance you need a second opinion.  It may be you really need the work done, but you need someone who will give you the straight scoop and is willing to say "I don't know. I'll ask someone"  when it is appropriate.  This kind of situation is a type of rip off, and if you can't trust what someone says about why you need something, there's a good chance you can't trust what they say about which things you do need.

Skill and competence

Honest Mistakes

Honest mistakes happen, nobody is perfect.  Frequently people get upset because a problem is not resolved right away and they think perhaps nothing was done and they were "ripped off".    Anyone no matter how careful can make a mistake.  Car repair shops don't have the number and level of quality checks that the space shuttle program has, and even they make mistakes, so it should not be a shock that a shop might make some too.   It should not be a regular occurrence, and should be corrected quickly when a mistake is made. 

Intermittent problems

But sometimes if and when it doesn't get fixed on the first visit, it is not always the tech's or shop's fault.  Some problems can be intermittent and can not be found at just any given moment, we must wait for it to act up to find the cause. Of course these things should be explained by the service writer. 

Qualified Technicians

Other problems are simply out of the skill level of a given shop to find.  Again they need to be honest and tell you, but the lack of skilled techs doesn't make them a  rip off,  it is just a sign of the times.  The auto repair industry is a very high tech, competitive industry that usually advertises and sells its services like it's selling TVs instead of a complicated and valuable service.  Though fortunately and by necessity, it has begun to change this practice in recent years.  This catering to price shopping customers has kept prices low, which is nice, but it has made it difficult to afford to attract, keep and train qualified, honest technicians.  

Some say, I don't know if it is true or not, but "they" say the amount of accumulated knowledge a good all around master tech has about cars is as much as a medical doctor has in his field.   When was the last time you price shopped for a medical doctor?  You know what you'd get if you did... well your life is also riding on your wheels.

Because of these challenges, if we did not own a shop, I don't think I would want my children to pursue this line of work.  I think they will do well in it as owner/techs, but considering the investment in on going training, tools and equipment and the unprofessional financial compensation methods of most job positions in the industry, though it is steady work, it is not a great paying job for the level of expertise and investment that it requires.  

Back to the doctor-"knowledge level" analogy, even master technicians at the top of their career don't bring home nearly what medical doctors do, so before you get too upset with any shop about a mistake or a skill level issue, please consider the big picture and have a little patience.

CarScope's Situation

We don't have many diagnostic problems we can't solve at CarScope and we are training the next generation in the Hicks family to continue the tradition.   We even get referrals from other shops for the tough ones they can't do.   If we make a mistake, or have a problem, we don't mind owning up to it and standing behind the work.  We have a 1 year, unlimited mileage parts and labor warranty to back it up.

Fluid Maintenance

Now this is a tough one, many are accused of ripping people off with this one.    I used to not push fluid changes, but over the years I have leaned their value.  There are a few different ways of looking at WHEN a fluid needs to be changed.  I have seen many different AND conflicting methods written by different car manufacturers, "experts" of various types as well as the chemical and filter companies. 

OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturers- Ford, Honda, etc)  Recommendations

Some put great stock in what their particular car's manufacturer recommends for their particular vehicle.  While this may seem wise, many manufacturers do not even mention certain fluid changes, they claim they are not needed.  What this usually means in the real world is that they are not needed while the car is under warranty.  The manufacturer's main concern seems to be that it makes it out of warranty without costing them anything.  And the less maintenance they suggest the better it looks to prospective buyers. They can give you a "lower maintenance cost" sales pitch for buying that car if they reduce the recommended maintenance needs.  Incidentally, this is a major motivation in some of the ridiculously long oil change intervals that have come out!   But whether the OEM has it in their manual or not, any car is going to need new transmission or brake fluid when it gets a lot of miles on it. (100,000-200,000)  Many European cars for example now have a "sealed" transmission, that never needs fluid, never added, never changed.  Never that is until the transmission has a catastrophic failure and needs to be rebuilt.  Then it gets new fluid.  If you serviced the fluid shortly after that warranty period, before it got so many miles on it, you might get a lot more years out of it!

In reality, regardless of the make, all car systems are under the same basic stresses and require basically the same maintenance, but between business and engineering policy differences most of the OEMS disagree on what is the best practice.  Your car's OEM recommendations are not necessarily better than a different manufacturers' recommendations.  It could be the bean counters that made your policy, not the engineers.

 There are no industry standards that are universal and perfect, but most thoughtful independent repair shop owners agree, changing fluids make the systems last longer.  These are the guys that see the cars for YEARS after the factory warranty is up and  have experience on the job of making them last. 

NEW FLUID- but it looks good?

Many of the exposés have a lot of these cases.  The fluid change was sold when it was "not needed"- i.e. the fluid looked clean so it had to be a rip off!.  Some shops use (and flush companies sell them) charts that compare your fluid to new fluid.  This does tell you if it looks dirty, but not how many miles or years it's been since it was changed.   Some OEMS say don't worry if it is dark, some say change it when it is dark, they all vary!!  

If the fluid looks bad or dirty, almost all "experts" suggest changing it then, but many sources go further suggest changing it before it looks bad.  When a fluid is dirty, it means either there are contaminants in it or the chemical structure of the fluid itself or its additive package has changed..  Often by the time it is visibly dirty, overheating, moisture, corrosion or wear has already occurred.  The degree to which this applies varies with the different fluids but is true to an extent of all of them.   Often the additive package in a fluid wears out even when the fluid itself still performs the job, but this allows corrosion, foaming and other bad things to happen.  By changing it before it gets dirty, everything lasts longer and systems are fully protected and working as designed.

So we believe the best way to tell if it needs changing is how many miles you have gone.  So the "rip off" problem actually comes from the customer jumping around from shop to shop (usually price shopping) and/or the shop and the customer not keeping good records.   At CarScope, we keep track of it for you, but we don't know the history before it got to us unless you tell us. 

Granted, the "rip-off exposed" companies should have told the undercover reporters that the fluid looked good but depending on the miles or years since it was done, it may be due for service even though it looked good.  Who knows how many in those exposes did say something like that, and they may have explained what I just did to the reporters.  I hope they did but it just doesn't sell news as well.  

When we recommend  fluid change we try to tell you how urgent it is or why we are recommending it.  If we don't, please just ask.

Cost effectiveness. 

Each system has a different value to preventatively maintaining it.  We do recommend comparing the cost of maintenance to the cost of repairs if the system fails.  Here is more info on that subject.

Suspension parts

I have learned that some shops (dealerships in particular) like to sell suspension parts because a tie rod boot or ball joint boot is torn or cracked.  That is overkill.  Yes it is preventative maintenance, that part will eventually wear out or squeak because of the dirt getting in and the grease getting out, but it may not wear out at all or it may take MANY years!!   I'd just wait for it to squeak or to fail a state inspection before I replaced a torn boot (just have it checked every year or so if you don't have inspections).

Shocks and struts are often over sold.  If you can't feel the ride is worse, though it may have changed gradually and you did not notice it, if it is bad enough to be dangerous, you would likely have noticed it not driving well, bouncing after bumps, etc.  Considering the replacement cost, we don't do struts for maintenance at all.  Sometimes they will last the life of the vehicle,  so we wait for them to go bad before replacing them..  Of course if they are clunking that is different, we're talking ride and comfort here.

CV axles

Similar to the cracked boots on ball joints explained above, they are not URGENT when the boot splits, but their life will likely be shorter than the ball joint or tie rod's life with a torn boot, because a CV axle has a lot more movement and needs the clean lubrication more.  But the cost of replacing the whole axle is usually cheaper than doing just the boot, so since you are replacing the whole axle any way, if money is tight you can wait for it to start clicking going around the corner before you replace it.    However, if you have the money now, replacing CV axles when the boots are split badly is a reasonable preventative measure.  (It is ecologically more sound as well, since the axles are remanufactured, there is no need to tear up your old one more by waiting and driving on it more, because your old one will be turned in as a core to be rebuilt, though it will cost you no more money if you wait.)

Tune-ups

Though not needed as often as in the old days, engine performance maintenance is still needed.   Fuel filter (if serviceable) should be changed every 3 years or so and injector cleaning/ throttle cleaning every year or 2.  These are the regular items today,  Spark plugs should last 30-75,000 miles unless you are burning oil or it's not running right.  I wouldn't go the optimistic 100,000miles unless they are buried and very expensive to replace.  The 100l miles often works out ok, but some plugs get seized, and a bad or worn plug may contribute to coil failure.  If they are not buried under the manifold I'd do them every 75,000.  

Other items include spark plug wires if you have them; PCV valve and hoses;  Ignition coils themselves often go bad before the plugs do nowadays.  If you have one go bad, if you can get a lower parts price mark-up on the coils, it is not outrageous to consider replacing them all to avoid future diagnostic fees, inconvenience and considerable aggravation. 

If you have any questions about this topic, email or call and we'll be glad to help you.

P.S.      I am reminded that the mystery and fear that accompanies many people on a visit to a shop is a result of living in a "fallen world", where you never know who you can trust.  This reality is something I'm even more passionate about and if you'd like to get what I believe is  a "Biblical" slant on the subject , you could start with the automotive analogy I wrote years ago: Human Oil Changes

548-CARS (757-548-2277)

1014 Bells Mill Rd. Chesapeake, VA 23322

 

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Located off of Cedar Road in Great Bridge.

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There are 2 auto repair shops near each other on Bells Mill Road, please be sure to look for the big CarScope sign.